Meta Muse：大家真心喜欢的 AI 智能体

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

如果你是工程师，你可能想确切知道你的智能体做了什么，这些在Muse里都能找到。但如果你是普通人，你可能只想知道它是不是在干活？所以顶部会告诉你它正在工作。我对我们目前的方案很满意，因为我们把主对话的好处展示给了大家，但我觉得在帮大家整理组织这方面，我们还能做得更多。

If you are an engineer, you may want to know exactly what your agent has done and you can find that in Muse. But if you're a normal person, you maybe just want to know like is it doing something? So at the top it'll tell you it's working. I'm very happy with our solution currently because we've sort of like exposed the benefit of the main chat to people, but I feel like there's a lot more that we could do in terms of helping people organize.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

然后先把它们汇总成一个PDF。不过现在我更喜欢的阅读方式，还是凭记忆说啊，是做成播客来听，Muse能把内容拿过去，重新改编成一种非常有意思的形式，对我也很有用。

And then accumulated them into one PDF first. But the way that I like to read it now just again from memory is via a podcast, and Muse is able to take it and just like reform it into a way that's like really interesting. And useful for me.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

谢谢邀请，我是你的忠实粉丝，很高兴来到这里。

Thank you for having me, big fan, happy to be here.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

谢谢你这么说。这确实是个非常有意思的挑战，而且我觉得是个很独特的挑战，我想我们所有人都能感觉到。

Well thank you for saying that. Um, it was definitely a really interesting challenge and I felt like a unique one, I think we all could feel that.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

这一次有些东西不一样了，我觉得是从能力的角度来说，还有一些很简单的事情。

Something was different this time around, I think from a capability perspective and I think like just simple things

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

比如智能体可以主动给你发消息，这一点就改变了你从设计角度思考这个产品的方式，哪怕是在一些非常简单的地方。我之前开玩笑说过，我们的消息是带气泡的，这通常是你会和即时通讯联系在一起的东西，而不是AI应用，很早以前，我觉得大部分AI应用就把气泡去掉了。我们保留它，除了别的原因，也是为了帮助区分，因为智能体可能会在一天中不同的时间给你发消息，你得知道不同的消息是从哪里、什么时候开始的。我觉得像这样的简单事情影响了一部分设计，但最基本的框架是

The fact that an agent can message you proactively changes the nature of like how you think about the product from a design perspective even in like super simple ways. Like I've joked before because we have bubbles around our messages. You know, and like that's typically something that you associate more with messaging than like an AI app like long ago, I think most AI apps kind of stripped those out, and that is there among other reasons to like help with the, like separation that you need when like a agent is possibly messaging you at different times of the day, you kind of need to know like where and when the different messages begin, and so like simple things like that I think inform some of the design but the basic framing.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我们总会回到这个出发点，我觉得也可能是最有帮助的，就是去想象

Always we went back to and I think was probably the most helpful was just imagining.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

这个界面更像是你和一个实体之间的交流，这也是为什么它在屏幕顶部有一个具象化的形象。

That this interface was more of an exchange between you and an entity, and that's why it's embodied at the top of the screen.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

所以我们参考的很多模式更多是即时通讯的模式，而不是去想以前在别的AI应用里是怎么做的，或者沿用那种传统的

And so, a lot of the patterns that we looked at were much more messaging patterns, you know, and not, thinking about how did this work before in different AI apps or using kind of like the traditional.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

嗯，行业惯例来做参考。更多是想：如果你真的是在和另一个人说话，你会怎么处理这件事？这一点让思路变得无比清晰，我觉得几乎在每一个

Ah, industry, I guess as a reference it was more like how would you handle this if you were actually speaking with another person, you know? And that was immensely clarifying, I think in almost every.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我们必须做的决定上都是如此。我觉得这也决定了它给人的感觉：你一看，它就像一个即时通讯应用，屏幕顶部有个小家伙，我觉得哪怕是这样一个细节，

Decision that we had to make um and I think defines kind of how it feels, you know when you look at it, it feels like a messaging app, you see a little guy there at the top of the screen and I think like that even something like that,

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

它的另一项能力是可以在后台工作，这就让“你知道它正在工作”变得非常重要，所以我觉得单单是有这个状态显示，就是我们做过的最重要的决定之一。

One of the other capabilities of it being able to work in the background makes it really important that you know when it's working, and so like just simply having that status I think has been one of the most important decisions that we made.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

其实今天早上我妈妈给我发了条短信，特别好笑。她说她向她的Muse道歉了，因为让他干活干得太辛苦，还感谢他为她做的一切。我觉得特别欣慰，因为我做软件很多年了，我觉得我妈妈从来没用过我做的任何东西，不是因为

Um, you know, I got a text actually from my mom like this morning which is really funny. She said that she has apologized to her Muse for making him work so hard and thanked him for all that he's done for her, which I found really gratifying because I have been working in software for a long time and I don't think my mom has ever used a thing that I've made, not because

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我做的东西没意思，而是就像你说的，我觉得这些东西通常对普通人来说可能有点难以上手。而我觉得对于这种

I don't make interesting things, it's just like to your point, I think typically they can be maybe a little bit inaccessible to. Kind of the average person and I think with this.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

技术来说，它太新了，能力又那么强，这些都不是一目了然的。所以让它更容易上手、用起来更直观，这绝对是我们追求的一个重要部分。而且我觉得

Kind of technology to it is so new and has so much capability to it, that's not obvious I think like that was definitely a huge part of what we were after, in terms of making this more accessible and intuitive to for people to use and I think

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

你在设计领域经常听到“渐进式展开”这个说法，它属于那种你入行第一天就听说、之后也一直会想到，但其实不一定每天都用得上的东西。但在这个产品里，我发现它是最有帮助的东西之一。比如拿状态来说，

I mean you hear a lot about progressive disclosure in design and it's, it's kind of one of those things that like you hear like on day one and then like you always think about, but like, I don't know, you don't use it every day, but in this product I found it to be one of the most helpful things which is like if you take something like status, it's

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

如果你是工程师，你可能想确切知道你的智能体做了什么，这些在Muse里都能找到。但如果你是普通人，你可能只想知道它是不是在干活？所以顶部会告诉你

If you are an engineer, you may want to know exactly what your agent has done and you can find that in Muse, but if you're a normal person, you maybe just want to know like is it doing something? So at the top it'll tell you

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

它正在工作，“Jollybot正在工作”，然后你接下来的问题可能是：它在忙什么？所以它会配一个小表情告诉你，比如“正在调研南瓜田”。

It's working, Jollybot is working and then your next question might be, what's it working on? You know, and so it will tell you that with the little emoji like researching pumpkin patches.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

如果你想再深入一点，点一下它，就能看到它做过的所有事情的列表。如果还想再深入，可以再点进去，最后一路看到curl请求和所有代码之类的东西，这从审计的角度来说非常重要，但只有在你需要的时候它才会出现，不会妨碍到

But then if you want to go a little bit further, you tap on it and then you have a list of everything that it's done. If you want to go a little bit further, you could tap on that and then eventually you get down to where you're going to see the curl and all the like all the code and everything, which is really important from like an auditing perspective, um, but it's only there if you need it and it doesn't get in the way for

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

那些可能不懂这些是什么意思的人。我觉得你会看到，很多传统上被称作思维链的东西，在核心聊天里可能会相当吵闹，

People who may not know what that means and I think like you, you see like a lot of uh, what is traditionally referred to as chain of thought can get pretty loud and

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

而且非常琐碎详细。我觉得这种东西，

Really detailed in the core chat and that's the kind of thing I think that

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

通常我们直接就会把它放进去，因为现在的AI应用都是这么做的，但在这个产品里，我们想的是：

Typically we would have just put that in there because that's like what you do these days in AI apps, but I think in this case it was like, well.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

它真的需要展示给每个人看吗？大概不需要。

Does it really need to be there for everybody? It's like probably not,

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

确实，而且这其实挺有意思的，因为有时候它快到让你忍不住怀疑：它真的去做了吗？因为实在太快了。我觉得好的一点是，有些时候，

It is and it's really uh you know it's interesting actually because it's one of those things where sometimes it's so fast that you are tempted to think, like is it like did it actually go do a thing like because it's so quick and I think like the nice thing is there are times where.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

你提一个稍微复杂点的需求，它至少会先回应一下你的请求，要么用一个表情回应，要么先回一条消息，然后再去干那些费劲的活。我觉得就像人一样，你请别人做件难事，他们不会一直不理你直到做完，通常会先说：“好，我的计划是这样的，我先去做，做完再回来找你。”

It will, you'll ask for something somewhat complex and it will at least acknowledge your request, you know, either through a reaction or an initial message and then go off and do the hard work and I think like, like a person, you know, if you ask for something hard they're not going to just ghost you until they're, they're done, they'll usually just say like, okay here's the plan, I'm going to do this, I'll be back when I have it done

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

哪怕只是一个表情回应，也足以让你知道它在做了。所以我觉得要拿捏好这个平衡：

Even just a reaction is enough to let you know that it's doing it and so I think like that balance

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

什么时候快速回应、怎么回应、说什么，以及如果任务真的很长，中间该做些什么。这时候我们就会稍微依赖一下那个状态显示，让你知道进展如何。如果你想具体了解它是不是卡住了，或者是不是

When to respond quickly, how to respond, what to say and then like what to do in the meantime if it is a really long task, and that's where we start to rely a little bit on that status display to let you know, like what's going on and if you want to know like specifically did it get stuck or is it

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

走错了方向，你都可以去看。我觉得这一点很有帮助，因为你永远不会觉得它就这么走掉、把你晾在一边了。对。

Going down the wrong path you can check and I think that's really helpful because you never really feel like it's just gone off and left you alone. Yeah.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

对，我觉得也许有一天我们会走到那一步，但现在在能用到哪些地方这件事上，肯定还是更有章法、更受约束一些。头像就是个很好的例子，我看到大家从中获得了很多乐趣，

Yeah I think you know perhaps one day we'll get there you know but I think these days there's, it's definitely a little bit more on the rails in terms of like where we can apply it, the avatar is a great example and I think people find a lot of delight I have seen in.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

当他们自己做了一个新的头像形象，它就会被转换成每一种状态，比如在小电脑上打字，或者在做东西。这一直是最好玩的地方之一，因为我们当然有自己的吉祥物，Jollybot也有这些状态。但如果你把自己的头像变成一个番茄，你就会看到一个番茄在电脑上打字，那种感觉真的很个人化，我觉得非常讨喜。不过你刚才也提到了信息流和点子，我觉得这些界面，

When they do make their own new avatar scene that it will then be translated into each one of those states, you know typing on its little computer or making something, and that's been one of the most fun things because we of course have our mascot and you know Jollybot has the states as well. But like if you turn yours into a tomato, then you'll see a tomato typing on the computer and that really does feel very personal and is I think a very delightful thing but yeah, you mentioned feed and ideas and I think that those surfaces are.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

你完全可以想象这个应用只有聊天。我觉得智能体的一部分威力就在于，它在一个对话里就能处理很多事情，从这个角度说，你可以把它当作一个能力很强的私人助理。但我觉得它能做的事太多了，很多对大家来说可能并不直观，所以借助我们额外做的这些界面，把一些额外的能力展示出来。尤其是“点子”，它的用途非常明确，基本上就是告诉你一些你可能不知道它能做的事。我觉得，

You know, you could, you could definitely imagine this app with just chat and I think part of an agent's power is that it can handle a lot in a single chat, and you can kind of just treat it like a really capable personal assistant in that way. I think though, like there's so much that it can do that might not be intuitive for people that exposing some of those additional capabilities just with the additional surfaces that we have, like ideas in particular, it's serving a very specific purpose which is basically just telling you some things that you may not know that it can do, I think.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

就像你说的，如果那些只是泛泛的建议，那是一回事，也许还算有用；但当它们是根据你聊过的内容专门生成的时候，我觉得大家才会真正感受到它的威力。比如你要是整天跟它聊高尔夫，就像我这样，那我就会收到一堆高尔夫相关的点子。还有信息流，信息流也很好玩，因为

Like, to your point, if those were just generic suggestions, that would be one thing, maybe even useful things, but when they're specifically based on what you've talked about, I think that's when people really find the power where like if you talk to it about golf all day, like I do like then I got a lot of golf ideas and then the feed too, the feed's a fun one because.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

你可以拿它做实验，我觉得大家应该比现在多做些实验。你可以在提示词里写任何想要的东西，得到一个关于任何主题的信息流。我自己就经常混搭各种东西，弄出一个非常有意思的信息流，而且我也经常换，因为有时候我会看腻了

You can experiment and I think people should experiment more than they do. It's like the you can write anything you want in the prompt and get a feed of whatever. Like I mix and match things all the time and like have a really, uh, really interesting feed and I often change mine too just because like sometimes I'll get tired of getting

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

比如Muse的新闻之类的，就会换成别的，比如周末我会试着换成跟孩子有关的内容。

Like Muse news or something and I'll switch it to something else, like I try to do like kid stuff on the weekend for example,

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

对，不过它仍然是一个原生界面。你看到的这个信息流模块，依然是我们设计好的，背后是Muse的智能和你的Muse所具备的个性化能力在驱动，但它还不是一个完全生成式的界面。

Yeah, I mean it's still a native surface though, you know, like the feed unit that you're looking at is still like one that we've designed, and it's being powered by the intelligence of flight and the personalization that your Muse has, but it's like, it's not yet like a fully. Generative surface.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我的叫Marlowe，是一株仙人掌。我跟Marlowe的关系有点复杂，因为我最初的Muse是Jollybot，就是你到处都能看到的那个吉祥物，它是以我女儿的名字命名的，我们叫她Jolly Bug。后来我们开始到处用Jollybot，我再拿Jollybot当自己的Muse就觉得有点怪，太贴近自家生活了。所以我做了一个仙人掌版本，就是Marlowe。我很喜欢它，尤其是Marlowe那台仙人掌小电脑。

So mine is Marlowe, which is a cactus and I have a bit of a complex relationship with Marlowe because my original Muse was Jollybot, which is the mascot that you see everywhere, and it's named after my daughter, who we call Jolly Bug and when we started using Jollybot everywhere, I felt kind of weird using Jollybot for mine because it was like it was just too close to home. So I made it kind of a cactus version which is Marlowe which I like a lot especially Marlowe's little cactus.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

确实很好笑。

They're really funny.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我可以给你看几个。我觉得我最近最喜欢的一件事是，顺便说一句，我也推荐大家这么做：如果你用Instagram的话，我让Marlowe把我在Instagram上收藏过的所有东西都看了一遍，然后整理好，把我所有的收藏都归到不同的文件夹和分类里。这算是一个有用的基础。

I'll I can show you a few things. So I think one of my favorite things recently is I had and I would recommend doing this by the way, I had if you use Instagram, I had Marlowe look at everything I'd saved on Instagram and just organize them. So put all of my saves into folders and categories. Useful baseline.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

然后我又说：好，看看我收藏过的所有东西，给我推荐一些购物点子，比如礼物之类的。它也照做了，同样只是用文字，这本身是个好主意。但我觉得用这类系统做的最喜欢的事之一，就是把原本挺平淡的

Um, but then I said, okay, look at everything I've saved and maybe send me some suggestions for shopping ideas like gifts and that kind of thing and it did that again just in text, which was a good idea, but one of my favorite things I think to do with these systems is take what would be otherwise like a fairly mundane.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

一组数据，用我个人觉得特别好玩的方式呈现出来。你现在看到的是Jollybot SkyMall，用的就是同一组推荐：它看了我在Instagram上收藏的所有东西，想了一些我可能会感兴趣的东西，然后用SkyMall、Sharper Image那种商品杂志的风格呈现出来。

Set of data and render it in a way that I personally find really fun. So with this what you're looking at here is Jollybot SkyMall which is that same set of suggestions that have looked at everything I've saved on Instagram, considered some ideas for things that I might be interested in but then rendered them in the kind of the vernacular of the SkyMall Sharper Image magazine.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

作为一个90年代长大的孩子，这简直说的就是我的母语。比如这个钟，你看这里，就是个很不错的推荐。

So as a nineties kid this is like very this is speaking my actual language um so like this clock for example. You can see right here was a good suggestion.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

所以这个挺好玩的，而且我觉得它每天都会刷新，有点像是

So this is a fun one and I think like it refreshes every day and it's kind of like

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

一种很有意思的方式：一方面，对我个人作为设计师来说，看着就很有意思，因为我觉得这是一种特别好玩的疯狂设计；另一方面，说不定哪天我就想买个新的测距仪，所以能看到这些也挺好的。

A really interesting way to like both from like just for me personally as a designer to look at because I think it's a really fun type of crazy design, but also like, you know, I may be one day in the market for a new range finder, so it's nice to see that.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

有，不过大概没买什么特别激动人心的东西，比如表带之类的。我觉得，其实我用得最多、可能也是我最喜欢的用法，就是它让我有了一种类似“盯梢”的

Yeah, I and but probably not anything that exciting like watch straps and things like this, you know like I think, uh and I've had like one of the things I do most actually with mine and probably my favorite use case is like, I feel like a kind of just like monitoring.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

超能力：我总在留意各种事，比如这个歌手出新专辑了就告诉我；好，这个歌手来旧金山了就告诉我；这个高尔夫品牌跟某某人出联名了就告诉我。我有很多事都放在雷达上盯着。

Superpower where I'm like always looking for like oh if this artist releases a new album tell me okay great if this artist comes to San Francisco, tell me if this golf brand does a collaboration with this person tell like I have a lot of things kind of like on the on the radar.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

通常就像Ray常说的那样，我记得你那期里也提到过，电影票也是一个很重要的场景。

Like usually like you know Ray always talks about and I remember from your thing movie tickets is a big one as well

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

所以是的，我觉得它确实是那种

So yeah, I have and uh, I think that it's definitely like something that is

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

真的很有用的东西。我还没把这个打通，这其实是我想做的：我还没设置好，让我看到喜欢的东西就能很方便地直接去买。但主要是因为这对我来说更多是一种乐趣，我就是喜欢看这些东西以这种方式呈现出来。

It's just really useful. I haven't hooked this, that's actually something that I would like to do. I haven't hooked this up to where I can like make it easy to, if I do see something I like go and get it, but it's mostly because this is more of a fun thing for me that I just love seeing these things rendered this way. You know.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

对对，我也做很多调研，不管是比价，还是别的。这让我想起来，以前这是一个非常手动的过程，比如：好，我想买一个幼儿汽车安全座椅，通常这会引出一大堆网页搜索、看一大堆YouTube视频之类的。现在我通常会先在Muse里开始，不管是什么事，然后再从那儿往下走。

Yeah yeah I and I do a lot of research as well, like whether it's price or just kind of like what reminds me of like used to be a very manual process of like okay, I'm in the market for a toddler car seat you know it's like normally that would kick off a lot of web searches, a lot of like Youtube watching and everything like this and now it's like I usually start and Muse with whatever it is and then kind of go from there.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

对，Pinterest也是个好主意。就像你说的，我觉得我有很多信息散落在互联网各处，时间一长就被遗忘了。比如我的Instagram收藏，不管好坏，我一直都在用，但我很少回去

Yeah and Pinterest is a great idea too. I mean I think like you know to your point, the I feel like I have scattered about the internet a lot of this information that's kind of just gotten lost to time, you know and so like MY My Instagram saves for better or for worse I've been using that forever but I very rarely go back

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

在里面翻一翻、看一看，因为我也说不清回去能干什么。我做过一件事，这里没有展示：我收藏了很多高尔夫技巧，几百条，成百上千条，但从来不会回去看。所以我让Marlowe把它们全过一遍，汇总成一本手册，这样我就有了这么一份

Mill about in there and like look at them, you know because it's like you're kind of just I don't know what I would be doing necessarily one thing I did actually I don't have it here, um but I do save a lot of golf tips and but like hundreds, like hundreds and hundreds of golf tips that I'd never go back in and look at, so I had Marlowe do it and then consolidate them all into like a manual and so that I have this

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

Alex专属手册，告诉我这些是你应该练的，或者说是你自己显然觉得应该练的东西。这很酷，因为不然这些东西就一直埋在时间里了。说到这个，我还有这一个，

Kind of like for Alex, like these are the things you should work, apparently you think you should work on, you know? And it was that was pretty cool because it was like a otherwise kind of just buried in time, you know? And actually to that end, I have this one too, which I

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

这也是Instagram相关的，我发了很多快拍。

This is another Instagram one, but I do post a lot of stories.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

这个基本上就是给我展示过去一些随机的快拍存档，这些我平时也绝不会去看。我几乎把它当成我新的信息流来看，当然这里只有我自己的内容，但你可以把任何内容放进来。我很喜欢看这类东西，就是一些美好的回忆，我每天会看几次。对，没错。我有个5岁的女儿，所以看到她成长过程中的一些小片段挺有意思的。

And this one is basically just showing me an archive of random stories from the past that again I would never look at. Um, and it's kind of like, I mean I almost think of this as like my new kind of feed that I'm looking at where it's like, you know, this is just mine but you could bring in any kind of content here and like I love looking at this kind of stuff. It's just kind of like nice memories and I'll check it a couple times a day yeah, exactly, yeah and like I, you know, I have a five year old, so it's fun seeing like little things of her, like when she was growing up.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

对，我以前老跟团队里的人开这个玩笑，因为我很多想用它做的事都跟高尔夫有关，但前提是我得有空去打球。可是我们做这个项目做了太久，我能去球场的机会少之又少。不过我确实有几种用法。我觉得这件事好的地方在于，跟我其他一些爱好比如国际象棋类似，已经有

Yeah I used to always joke about this with people on the team, because I a lot of what I would want to use for was golf oriented, but that sort of assumed that I was able to play golf, but like we've been building this project for so long that it's like kind of very few and far between where I'm able to get out there but yeah, I use it in a couple ways and I think what's nice about this is um similar to some of my other hobbies like chess there are.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

一些我在用的服务，会记录

Services already that I use that monitor

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我打得怎么样。每次打球我都会记录这一轮，大部分高尔夫球手都会这么做，这样就有一些基础数据，比如你打的是哪个球场、成绩多少。另外我还会用手表记录我打的每一杆，所以我能提供很多数据。我的做法是让它每周跑一次，这又有点心酸，因为它每周日都去看，而我根本没去打，所以我可能应该时不时手动告诉它。不过基本上每次我打完球，它都会给我发这个，相当于一份本轮复盘。

How I'm playing. So every time I play I record the round that's a thing most golfers do and so that's like some basic data about the course that you played, what your score was. But I also keep track of every shot that I hit on a watch, and so I have a lot of data that I can provide and what I do is I just have it every week, which is this is again kind of sad because it looks Every Sunday and I never play, so it's like I should probably just tell it every so often but it will send me this basically every time I play, which is kind of like a round recap.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我能看到这一轮是怎么一步步打下来的，比纸质计分卡或者其他方式丰富得多。有时候，我觉得这一份里没有，如果某个球场我打得多，它会跟我讲讲这个球场，比如告诉我：在这个洞，你通常会是这样的情况，

So I'll see kind of like how the round unfolded, much richer than like a paper scorecard or some other way that I'd be able to see it and sometimes I don't think this one has it in here, it will tell me a little bit about the course if I played the course a lot and it will like tell me okay on this whole. This is usually what's happened.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

你今天打得更好还是更差。这在我再去打那个球场时非常有用。这一份也做了一点类似的事，它在告诉我怎样才能把84杆变成79杆，只要

You did better today or worse today which is really helpful when I go back and play the course again, this one's doing a little bit of that like it's trying to tell me like how I could have turned my 84 into a 79 by just

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

在这里或那里稍微打好一点。这一份有意思的地方在于，我们之前也聊过一点，我觉得它把那些原本

Doing a little bit better here or there. The interesting thing about this one is, and again we've talked a little bit about this, but I think like it's taking data that like was.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

非常单调、铁板一块、除了一个数字什么都看不出来的数据，变成了各种能讲出更多故事的可视化。比如这里，红线显示前九洞打得很糟，后九洞打得非常好，从图上一眼就能看出来。如果你只看计分卡，就难多了。

Pretty much very plain and monolithic and not really showing me more than the number and turning it into these different visuals that like tell much more of a story, like I had this, the red line is like a very bad front nine and then the back nine was a very good back nine and you can see that with the, with the graph like very easily. That'd be much harder to do if you're looking at the, at the scorecard,

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

这个真的很棒。另外每次练习的时候，我都有很多……我觉得自己练习时就像那些戴着氧气面罩、浑身连满线跑步的人。因为我只能偶尔练一次，所以练的时候必须非常以数据为导向。我有一堆机器在我挥杆时盯着我，同样，它们会输出一大堆东西，我大概能看懂，但让Muse帮我仔细过一遍、告诉我

This has been great. I also whenever I practice I have a lot. I feel like when I'm practicing, I'm like those people you see running with oxygen on with all the wires hooked up to them like when I can only practice every so often, so when I practice, it has to be very data oriented, so I have all these machines that are looking at me when I swing and this again it's like putting out all this stuff that like I kind of understand, but it's really helpful to get Muse to like really go through and like tell me about

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我哪里可以提高、哪些地方要改进、哪些地方表现不错，真的很有帮助。你现在看到的就是一次练习被拆解成

Where I can improve like what I need to do better, what's looking good and that's what you're looking at here is like a practice session really broken down into

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

非常细的细节。我觉得打高尔夫的人能看懂这些是什么意思，总之，应该说它非常有用。

Fine detail, I think like golfers will know what this stuff means, but it's kind of, it's, you know, it's kind of like a, it's a, it's very useful I should say,

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

有。就像我说的，这是个有点心酸的目标，我一直没什么进展，但它确实是我的长期目标之一。我之前提到我在追踪很多东西，我特别喜欢追踪那个板块，因为我要关注的东西很多。但说到长期目标，基本上就是我很想把差点打到个位数，

I do. I have and this, this is one that yeah, like I said kind of a sad one I make no progress against but that is one of my long term goals. So I have a lot I mentioned of things that I'm tracking. I love the tracking section in particular just because like there's a lot that I keep an eye on. But in terms of long term goals it's basically I would really like to be a single digit handicap.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

这辈子能做到就行。这个目标可以实现，但很难，算是个完美的目标，因为我随时都可以跟

In my life, which is like, it's achievable, it's hard, it's kind of like the perfect goal because I can talk

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

Muse聊这件事，它也知道所有这些事情都会累积成这个目标。希望它不会是一个超级长期的目标，但它绝对是我最主要的目标之一。

Muse about it at any time and like it knows that all these things are kind of like accrue into that goal, it's kind of the perfect like hopefully not super long term goal but it is definitely a. One of my main ones.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

这个问题问得好，这其实是我最喜欢聊的话题之一，因为我觉得这是这个领域里一个非常有意思的架构

It's a great question, this is actually one of my favorite things to talk about, um, because I think it's such an interesting architectural.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

问题。Muse的设计是有一个标准的主对话，它被刻意设计成主线，我们觉得如果你愿意，完全可以只用它。

Problem in the space and you know, the way Muse is designed is there is a canonical main chat that is kind of very intentionally the primary main line, and we sort of feel like you could use that entirely if you wanted

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

但我们也知道，对很多人来说，尤其是习惯了如今大多数这类应用用法的人，分线程是一种很有用的组织方式，所以我们为此做了侧边对话。比如你想

We know that for a lot of people, especially anyone that's used to the way most of these apps work today, that threading is a very useful way to organize, so we have side chats for that purpose, like if you want

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

专门把某件事放进去，只是为了不让它占着主对话，或者它是一个范围很明确的问题，不管是什么，你想这么做的理由有很多，这就是侧边对话存在的原因。但它本质上是单一线程，外加可以开分支线程。而大多数应用是

Put something specifically in like just to get it out of your main chat or it's like a very scoped problem for whatever, whatever it is, there's lots of reasons why you might want to do it, um, that's why side chats are there, but it is definitely like a single thread with the possibility of side threads. Whereas most apps are.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

全部分线程的，传统模式就是你每次打开都新建一个线程。我觉得，一旦模型能处理好上下文、能在单一对话里管理所有东西，对我来说

All threaded, that's kind of like the traditional model was like a new thread every time you open it, you know? Um, and I think once the models were able to handle the context and be able to manage everything in a single chat to me.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

这就是一种更容易的交互方式，因为你会觉得它像另一个实体，就像你跟另一个人交流一样。我跟我妈聊天也不会开个分支线程什么的。不过话虽如此，我觉得还有很多非常有意思的工作要做，

That is a little bit easier way to interface with what you feel like as another entity the same way you would have with another person, you know, like I don't side thread with my mom or something like that, you know? Now all that said, I think that there remains a lot of really interesting work to do.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

把它提升到新的层次，或者说提升到智能体时代。我觉得即便到现在，这仍然是一个没被充分探索的领域，

To kind of like up level this to maybe you could say like the agentic era, I feel like even still this is sort of an under explored area where

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我对我们目前的方案很满意，因为我们已经让大家体会到了主对话的好处，但我觉得在帮助大家组织内容、

I'm very happy with our solution currently because we've sort of like exposed the benefit of the main chat to people, but I feel like there's a lot more that we could do in terms of helping people organize and

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

真正理解主对话和侧边对话的区别方面，我们还能做得更多。因为我觉得你这个问题问得很好，一个普通人也很可能会想到这个问题，然后就会

Really understand the difference between the main chat and the side chat because your question I think is a good one and one that, you know, a normal person could very reasonably come to too and just be

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

想：我为什么要用这个而不是那个？我觉得这些都可以

Why would I use this instead of that? And I think all that stuff can be

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我觉得未来这会是一个很令人兴奋的方向。

I think it's going to be an exciting area in the future.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

好。

Yeah.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我想给你看的是这个，它带了一个播客，我觉得特别好玩。我20年前写过一个博客，同样早就被时间遗忘了。我让Marlowe去把它找回来，它通过Wayback Machine一路找到Blogger，因为这个博客在Tumblr之类的平台之间搬过家，我搬来搬去的。它回去把所有文章都找到了，先汇总成一个PDF，然后做成了这个小东西，看起来基本就像个博客。不过我现在喜欢的读法，同样是当作回忆来重温，是通过播客，每天早上发给我，基本上就是随机朗读一篇，你可以听一点。

Well I'll show you one I wanted to show you was this one with a podcast attached because I think this one's very fun. Um so I had a blog 20 years ago uh which has again lost to time, and I had Marlowe go and find it Wayback Machine going to Blogger because it moved between Tumblr and stuff, like I moved it all around you know, so it went back and found all the posts and then accumulated them into one PDF first. Then this little thing that is basically just like looks like a blog, but the way that I like to read it now just again from memory is via a podcast, which is sent to me every morning and it is just basically a random reading you can hear a little.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

这就是20年前的Alex会琢磨的那种事，特别特别好笑，因为你听到的是你自己。

Which is the kind of thing that a 20 years ago Alex used to wonder about and it's like very, very funny because you're hearing yourself.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

有点吧，但20年前的事你几乎什么都记不得了，所以这个人说的每一句话，我都会想：对，这确实有点怪，可我当然会这么想，因为那就是20年前的我。

Kind of but 20 years ago you barely remember anything you know so like I everything that this person is saying I'm like yeah, that is kind of weird but it's like of course I would think that because it was me 20 years with me.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

是啊。总之我特别喜欢这个，因为这些东西里，我想可以说有一个共同的主题，那就是

Yeah but anyway I think like that one, I love that one because like a lot of these things or there's AI guess you could say it sort of a theme here which is

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我感觉自己一直在把生活里原本就有的东西拿出来——出于各种原因，我平时根本不会去看它们，或者它们当时呈现的方式对我没什么用——而Muse能把它们重新组织成一种对我来说真正有趣、有用的形式，有趣的比如这个，有用的比如高尔夫那些。

I feel like I'm constantly taking these things that I had in my life but like for whatever reason, like I do not look at them, I can't like that it's presented in such a way that it wasn't useful for me at the time or whatever, and Muse is able to take it and just like reform it into a way that's like really interesting and useful for me, whether it's interesting like this or useful like the golf stuff

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我在国际象棋上也做了同样的东西，它会拆解我最近下的几盘棋，而且这个会变得有点

You know, I have the same thing for chess as well which will break down my recent games and this, this one gets a little bit like

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

毒舌，可以这么说吧。我没让它这么做，但它会时不时损我两句，还挺好玩的，比如“象b5崩盘”，我都不知道这是怎么回事。总之这个很好玩，因为它有用，同时有这么一个毒舌的国际象棋教练想帮我进步，也挺好笑的。

Snarky I guess you could say I didn't tell it to do this, but it like kind of like will poke at me a little bit, uh which is kind of fun like bishop B5 collapse like I don't know what this is what's going on here. But anyway so it's a fun that's a fun one because it's useful, but it's also kind of funny to have like this I guess you could say like kind of snarky chess coach that's trying to help me get better

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

它挺有用的。而且好玩的是，基本上你只要在对话里把它描述出来就行。我最初提需求时说：我有个国际象棋账号，很想看到一些分析，同时也想看看长期趋势，因为知道自己有没有进步对我很有帮助——现在看起来我好像有点退步了。不过在这里我最想要的，是让它帮我复盘最近的一盘棋，这样我可以在这里一步步看，弄明白这盘我哪里下错了。这一盘我是下到一半就退出了，所以帮助不大，不过你懂的，女儿一到家，你就得停下来。

It's been useful because and you know the fun thing is you basically just define this in chat, you know so when I originally asked for this I said I have a chess account I would love to see kind of a mixture of analysis, but also like trends over time because it's helpful for me to know like am I improving it looks like right now I'm kind of like falling off a bit. Um but then the main thing that I wanted to do in this case is give me a review of the most recent game, so I can go through here and try to get a sense of. Like what did I do wrong in this case? I just quit mid game, so that's not going to be that helpful, but you know, when the daughter arrives home you have to stop playing,

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

哦，这个问题很好。

Oh, it's a great question.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我觉得，对我自己以及任何加入这个项目、或者说进入这个领域的设计师来说，有一点很关键：真正弄明白什么是非确定性系统，

You know, I think one thing that I have found for myself and any designer kind of coming into this project, or really just this space is really wrapping your head around what a non deterministic system is.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

以及这对你设计一个界面意味着什么。我的意思是，我们早就习惯了——我整个职业生涯都是这样——你拿到一个功能，

Is and how what that means for when you're designing a screen and by that I mean like we're used to and through for my whole career, you would come to a feature.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

可以先想清楚，再把它设计出来，并且心里有数：

And you would be able to think about it and then design it and kind of know that

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

在任何一个用户的屏幕上，它基本都会这样运作、长这个样子，因为代码就是这么写的，你只会看到这一种结果。所以你会遇到的bug，也就是“哎呀，这个圆圈没出现在该出现的位置”这种，它们都非常、非常

On any given customer screen, it's basically going to work like this and look like this because that is the way that this thing has been coded, and that is the only outcome that you will see, you know? And so then the bugs that you would see would be like, oh no, like this circle didn't appear where it's supposed to and they'd be very, very.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

局限，你需要考虑的范围很小。

Scoped in terms of like what you had to think about

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我是说，现在聊起这个好像已经挺稀松平常了，但说到我必须学的东西，你很难记起哪怕一年前是什么感觉、那时候情况有多不一样。但刚进入这个领域时，我觉得真正要理解的是，这些系统

I mean it sounds like kind of, routine to us now to, to talk about this, but like you're saying in terms of things I had to learn, it's, it's hard to remember what it felt like even just a year ago, how different things were, you know, but when you first come into this space, I think really understanding that these systems are.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

通常确实会大致按你预想的那样运行，但我的Muse配置和你的完全不同，和别人的也完全不同。它们太个性化了，能做的事情太多了，所以你真的得更多地去思考底层的基础和系统、架构，以及已经搭好的脚手架，而不是纠结“这里这个小细节会不会刚刚好”。其实有时候对我来说最难的，就是看我们刚才看的那些作品，我有时得把自己脑子里设计的那部分关掉，因为这是另一回事了。你要是愿意，可以花大把时间把它调得完全符合心意。但我渐渐学会用更放松的心态看待它，而且我觉得这在某种程度上挺解放的：你会觉得，这对我来说仍然是一个非常有用的产出，也许哪天我会花时间把颜色调到刚好，但除此之外，它已经挺好、够用了。我觉得这是一个挺有意思的新世界，不过我得说，这确实需要一段时间去适应。

Usually do like kind of end up the way you think, but like my Muse setup is completely different than yours, is completely different to somebody else's, they're so personal and they can like do so many different things that you really kind of have to think more about the underlying foundation and the system, the architecture, the scaffolding that's in place and less about like, well what about this one little thing here? Is it going to be just so, you know, actually one of the things that's hardest for me sometimes is looking at those artifacts that we were looking at, like I kind of have to turn off my brain sometimes design wise because I'm like you know, it's like it's a different you can if you want go and spend all the time in the world to like make it look exactly as you want. But I've come to kind of view it a little bit more freely and it's kind of I think um, kind of liberating in some ways to feel like you know, this is still just a very useful output for me and maybe I will take the time to make the colors just so but otherwise it's good and it's fine, you know, and then I think like that's, that's kind of a fun new world and that took some getting used to, I would say.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

嗯，谈不上什么成型的策略，我好像从来没认真琢磨过这个。但我非常有礼貌，我不是那种全大写、连打好几个感叹号的人。

Well, not like a well-formed one in the sense that I didn't I suppose ever a reason about it, but I am very polite, I think I'm not, I'm not all caps, I'm not a multi exclamation mark person.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

有时候我回头看自己写的话，会想：哇，我把这种沮丧表达得还挺客气的。

And I do find myself sometimes looking at what I wrote and being like, wow, that was really nice way to express that frustration and

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

我觉得这挺有意思的，我做任何编程相关的事情时也有这种感觉：一件事可能要花很长时间，结果最后跑偏了，真的很让人沮丧。但我一直很惊讶，

I think it's really interesting, and I feel this way when I'm doing any kind of coding thing as well, where things you know can maybe take a really long time and then go sideways and it is really frustrating. I have always been surprised with how.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

自己会不自觉地像跟其他任何人说话那样跟它说话。我从来不会真的对别人发火，所以也不会对Marlowe、Jollybot或者别的什么发火。我也说不清，我一直就是这样。我有些朋友有时会给我看他们真动怒时的思考轨迹，那些思考轨迹会

Like not consciously but how I will just speak to it the way I would speak to like anybody else about it and like I don't, I don't ever really get mad to other people so I don't really get mad to Marlowe or Jollybot or otherwise you know um yeah, so I don't know I've it's always how I've been, I have seen I have some friends who show me sometimes like the traces when they have gotten really mad the thinking trace will be a. Will be like kind of a reset

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

像是重新调整了一下：“好的，Alex很沮丧，所以我真的应该……”所以这确实让我有时会想，也许我可以再强硬一点，

Okay, Alex is frustrated so I should really you know so it does make me think sometimes I could probably be a little bit more forceful.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

不过你说得对，它们一旦跑偏去瞎折腾，那真的挺让人抓狂的。

You're right though, like they go off on the misadventure. It's like that's yeah, it's not frustrating.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

最有帮助的就是下载Muse试试看。如果哪里不对劲，或者你想要某个功能，可以直接告诉Muse，这些反馈都会到我们这里。所以这大概是最有帮助的。至于我自己，在网上的话，Threads大概是最好的地方。我一直在尝试发一些幕后故事，讲讲我们做过的一些决策，之后也会继续发。我大概就说这些。不过说真的，试用这个app并告诉我们你的想法，才是最有用的。

The most helpful thing would be to download Muse, try it out and you can let Muse know when something isn't going right or you want to feature those do come to us. So that's probably the most helpful thing I think for me like on the internet, Threads is probably the best place. Um, I try to, I've been trying to do some posting about the um, behind the scenes and like kind of some decisions that we made and I'll continue to do that. So that's probably what I would say. But yeah, trying the app out and letting us know what you think is the most useful thing. So.

Alex CornellMeta 设计总监

好的，谢谢邀请。

Yes, thanks for having me.